Curator Q&A: Lewis Dalton Gilbert on vessels

Crafts Council has collected examples of fine UK making since the early 1970s and vessels are among the most frequently represented forms, reflecting their deep-rooted presence in artistic practice. In October 2024, Crafts Council’s collections team worked with curator Lewis Dalton Gilbert to present Unboxing the Collection, an exhibition at Crafts Council Gallery supported by a programme of talks and workshops, exploring some of the vessels in Crafts Council Collection - contemplating how they allow us to see connections between geography, time and culture.

Unboxing the Collection presented a selection of vessels to celebrate the methods, ideas, influences, and innovations used to create the works, bringing to light how many of these have persisted for centuries and find their roots in global practices. The exhibition showcased the enduring methods that continue to be employed by contemporary makers, and the exciting new frontiers emerging from these innovations.

Lewis took time to speak with Noah Mclean, a member of Crafts Council’s Young Craft Citizens who supported the creation of the exhibition and programme, about vessels, their collection, meaning and resonance.

Noah: What is your first memory of exploring art or craft in tactile terms? Do you have an early core memory of physically making or using a vessel that comes to mind? 

Lewis: The first thing that comes to mind is being a kid and playing with Play Doh. I remember being obsessed with it and staining my Dad’s floor with it; my sister telling me I was going to get in big trouble. But I also used to the pots that Play Doh came in to transport things around. I used to collect the miniature toys and they used to go in there and used as a backdrop to whatever story I was telling. I also remember the pots that PVA glue came in at school and turning those into vessels, kind of having them on your finger.

Those are some of the real first memories I have of a vessel. I think when you’re young having that sense of ownership over anything is significant, you don’t feel like anything is really yours. Making something that you can claim as your own is really nice.

Noah: What were the thoughts informing your selection of the makers for each of the workshops? 

Lewis: We wanted to make sure makers involved in the programme were also in the collection, and that they were also the kind of artists who would play with the ideas. We didn’t want anyone to leave the workshops with a final product, as such. Both Rosa and Darren work with materials, and these materials lead them in their practice. Rosa’s interest in Chinese medicine and in ikebana provided the perfect space to create organic work. I also wanted to work with makers who would create an environment for people that was quite free.

It was more about sharing of ideas which is what this whole project is about, rather than having a preconceived idea of what was going to be made. It’s the idea of play and arts for art’s sake – for fun – that’s something that is so important to craft and to the collection that Crafts Council cares for.

Noah: What one object from the exhibition do you find yourself the most linked to, and why – whether that be visually, contextually, or both? 

Lewis: This is the hardest question. I’m obsessed Magdalene Odundo’s Asymmetrical Reduced Black Piece, partly because of the blackness of it, the darkness of it, really pulls you in. I have to shout out Rosa and Darren, because hearing more about their practice directly from them made their pieces from the collection [Appiagyei’s Banksia Vessel and Nguyen’s Seed Pod] even more special to me. Also, hearing the backstory of Bisila Noha’s Two Legged Vessel and Esna Su’s The Burden I pieces was also really special. The one that always sticks out to me, and I always go back to it in my mind, is Hella Jongerius’ Soft Urn. The play with materials and the way that light comes through the work really speak to me, visually and aesthetically.

I’m also reminded of those PVA pots that I used to make as a kid and the way that you can squeeze it and it looks like it should be hard, but it’s not. It’s just a really beautiful piece - so that’s the one I would sneakily take home!

Noah: Taking the lead from the saying “An empty vessel makes the loudest noise”, to what extent you believe the appreciation of a vessel is related to it practical use: does a vessel have meaning and importance beyond its practical purpose? 

Lewis: That saying kind of implies that people who talk a lot about their knowledge, talent or experience aren’t as knowledgeable, talented, or experienced as they really are. Something Exploring the Vessel highlights is that a vessel can be as important, if not more important, than what it holds. I think its practical use can mean less than its sentimental attachment to you, or what it means to you as an object. I’m thinking how the value of a vessel can often be greater than what it holds.

I think some of the objects in the collection are incredibly decorative: they are artworks, but are still functional – they are still functionable fine art. Some of them are purely craft and they’re there for those practical uses, but there’s still an appreciation of the craftsmanship that goes into it. Thinking about the disposable cups in Crafts Council’s handling collection - these throw-away, terracotta implement - they’re really beautiful and have weight to them. Everyone in the workshops was appreciating them, but ultimately those were meant to be, and initially designed to be, thrown away.

Noah: Has this project and the exhibition reframed how you see vessels? 

Lewis: I think so. There’s so much visual stimulus in the exhibition and the space it inhabits. There’s a book in Crafts Council library, If These Pots Could Talk by Ivor Hume. Not only has it made me think differently about vessels, it’s also made me think - what is a vessel? There are vessels I own, or things, I’ve had for a really long time, that I’ve reconsidered as to what counts as a vessel - and I’ve been reminded of their importance.

Noah: When we consider the stories of Black makers in ‘reimagining’ narratives, at what point do we transition from reimagining to the act of actively ‘reclaiming’ narratives? What steps can we take to start this journey? 

Lewis: This is a hard one, because even the term ‘we’ is challenging. There has been a lot of exclusion and erasure of Black makers from national institutions and collections. I think it’s the responsibility of institutions to ensure that's not done again, by amplifying the voices of Black makers today and ensuring they’re being given the same space as their white and Asian counterparts. It’s hard to ascertain who the ‘we’ is in that because there's always been incredible Black makers doing incredible things. It's just that they haven't been given fair space and the platform for their work to be shown. When coming up with the titles of these projects, often it is more for the audiences that tend to visit these gallery or exhibition spaces normally.

Because of the exclusion and the erasure of Black makers, we have to reimagine some of those narratives, because we don't have the ability to tell those stories without a bit of imagination. I think we are all responsible for making sure that doesn't happen again. I think initiatives like Unboxing the Collection are doing some of the work to get there. Ultimately, I think a lot of the work needs to be done by the people who are in control, because it's can’t solely be the responsibility of Black makers.

Noah: What is your favourite vessel that you own and what does it look like? 

Lewis: I wouldn’t say I’m a minimalist, but I don’t actually own that many things. Lots of the things that I hold dear are things I’ve been given. I have an incense holder that my partner made me in the shape of a dolphin, which I love. I have a bowl that my friend Nick made me which I also love. I have a collection of Le Corbusier & Charlotte Perriand desk-tidy ashtrays that were produced by Lumax. They kind of look like carved-out ice cubes and they’re quite precious to me. If there was a fire, I would definitely save the things people have made me, but the Charlotte Perriand would be a close second.

The sentimental value that everyday objects hold is definitely something I’ve become more conscious of through working on this project: not necessarily what they hold practically, but emotionally.

Noah: When we think about collections for the future, how should a national collection think about what it collects? 

Lewis: Hearing from people who came to the Unboxing workshops and discussions that also work in the field of collecting, I learned there are so many obstacles: lack of funds, lack of space. I think it would be really exciting if collections were able to work collaboratively to ensure that what they acquire is looked after properly, but also made available for the general public to see. If we were to scan all of the collections that exist now, there would be a lot of work by the same artists that maybe do the same things, that we don't necessarily need disproportionate amounts of. A collaborative review of what we have and what we don't have would be really exciting in an audit.

Many collections have the title of a ‘national collection’ as they are for the nation, but they should reflect the nation, and should be working together to ensure that there isn't so much overlap and crossover. I used to work in a gallery. The male artists were collected so much more than the female artists. I think lots of national collections have one piece by a female artist, zero work by Black artists, but ten pieces by a white male. It’s those examples that we need to re-address that scope of, while also thinking about the obstacles faced internally. I’d love to see a collaborative approach going forward.

Noah: What advice would you give to anyone wanting to start their own collection of craft or art objects at home? 

Lewis: Start with investing in things that you love, because there’s no guarantee that things are going to make money. If that’s your interest, knowing what the art market is like, collecting in this way is not a fixed investment. Buy what you love, from artists that you love, and don’t necessarily look for a specific name unless it’s also a specific object from that name you’re looking for. These things always become conversation starters, this idea of the thing on the wall that you want to talk about – if you have no connection to it, it feels rather like an empty vessel. If you invest in what you love, it will always return its value. If someone asks you why you have something, and your answer is “because I love it” then I think that’s the goal.

Noah: Could you summarise your journey into curating? 

Lewis: I’m definitely still on the journey, and I think I’ll always be on the journey. That’s one of the things I love not only about my career but also this industry - that you’re constantly learning. I didn’t study curation, I studied fine art and quickly realised I didn’t want to be an artist but that I enjoyed working with artists, being around artists to hear their stories, to understand why they make work and what their interest are. Then I started working in a gallery after university to get the lay of the land and an understanding of what’s out there.

Even linking back into one of the workshops we put together for this project, I think it’s really important for people to get an understanding of what careers are in the creative field, and we need to get better at demystifying those things. I worked in galleries for a few years and worked with curators for a while, but didn’t necessarily think I was going to go into it. Then my first proper experience of curation was when I was put forward for a job at a gallery and put together a programme for them as part of the interview process. I did that because I wanted to show them my full process and make sure we were aligned. I then got the job. That was my first introduction to it.

My advice for people who want to get into curation is to write down the ideas that you have, as you’re effectively curating already. I know everyone doesn’t have the means to do lots of jazzy things, but even just getting images off the internet and starting, writing your own press release for a show, thinking up titles for an exhibition. Once you’ve set out these ideas you can keep on adding to them, which is something I still do now. As I said, you’re constantly learning, evolving, practicing how to make links between things.

Noah: Is there a central theme underpinning the projects that you work on?

Lewis: I'm really interested in amplifying lesser-known stories. As creative director of A Vibe Called Tech, that's our main interest. We started off by amplifying the voices of Black creatives solely, and that has broadened out as we looked inwardly. Charlene, the founder, is a woman, and a mother, she's lots of different things. I’m a gay man, a Black man, I’m from London and from a lower socio-economic background. We wanted to use our first year of learning, working with Black creators and amplifying their voices, to see how it would work if we looked at creativity through an intersectional lens as a whole.

For me, amplifying lesser-known stories, but also highlighting how interconnected we are, is really important. I think it's important to see how we overlap, to build an understanding of what we do and how that has a knock-on effect to others: that’s probably the common thread throughout.

Read more about Unboxing the Collection and explore the vessels in Crafts Council Collection for free at https://collections.craftscouncil.org.uk/